This piece first appeared in Tally Ho Sulky, a lovingly written and produced fanzine by Adalena Kavanagh. If you would like a copy of Tally Ho Sulky in its entirety, please email 5redpandas AT gmail.com. Adalena also blogs at tallyhosulky.blogspot.com

Don’t Fall For the Traps of the Man Who Was Never Born

An introduction to an interview with poet and Silver Jew, David Berman

By Adalena Kavanagh

When I conducted this interview back in October of 1997 I was young enough to be excited, but not exactly surprised that I was granted the opportunity to spend a day with one of my heroes, David Berman. I decided I wanted to interview Berman—I was not, and still am not, affiliated with any publication— so I wrote him a letter and hoped he’d agree to sit and answer my questions. When I returned from a family vacation in Texas I received a postcard from Berman explaining that he’d be in New York representing Drag City at CMJ and he was available for an interview session. I was given a phone number to call on the specified date and I did as I was instructed.

When I first called a strange man answered and had fun with me. This man would later turn out to be Drag City’s Dan Koretsky and he told me that a man was impersonating David Berman and sullying his good name and they had to be careful about who they let speak to Berman. After a bit of this the phone was passed over to a croaking Berman. He was warm and casual and explained his scratchy voice by saying he’d stayed up too late drinking and smoking. We discussed plans to meet and I was told I could find Berman at Florent on Gansevoort Street in the meatpacking district in Manhattan "with a red carnation in my buttonhole".

On my way to the restaurant I walked past my first transvestite hooker. I was nervous. I’d never interviewed anyone before and I was less self-assured when I was 19 than I am now at 27. Despite my shyness I consciously sought out experiences that would change my life. I was happy.

When I reached the table that Berman sat at I was surprised to see several other unshaved men sitting around a table eating the remnants of a late breakfast. Berman politely introduced me to Dan Koretsky, DV DeVincentis, David Pajo and Will Oldham. I sensed that I was interrupting something so I quietly sat as a waiter filled a glass with water for me.

Dan Koretsky posed for a picture with Will Oldham holding a wad of crisp bills fanned out in front of his face. Berman explained to me that Koretsky always made you take a picture with the cash he’d loaned you for proof of the exchange. Oldham jumped up after the photo was taken and left with Pajo to go record shopping. After they left Berman and Koretsky began arguing about expenses Berman had incurred on his trip to New York City. Berman wanted to be reimbursed and Koretsky was giving him a hard time. He sat back in his seat in a khaki safari vest and yellow tinted aviator sunglasses. With his bushy beard and taunting eyes he had the look of a man affecting a Hunter S. Thompson look so as to make strong-arming his record label’s roster easier for him. It seemed like he was having himself a good time playing the asshole record executive. He asked Berman, "You have any receipts for the taxi from Newark? I’m gonna need to see the receipt." Berman first insisted he had receipts but then became exasperated at Koretsky’s smile and complained, "You know I don’t. Just give me the money."

I was uncomfortable watching this exchange and was relieved when we stood up to leave. We were headed over to Other Music on Fourth Street. There was a slight bit of controversy because Drag City had paid for a window display for the then newish Silver Jews record The Natural Bridge, but the Jewish owner of the space that Other Music leased had supposedly seen the advertisement and decided that the band name Silver Jews was anti-Semitic. Even when it was explained that the principle member of the band, David Berman, was himself Jewish the owner insisted that the advertising be taken down. This incensed both Koretsky and Berman to a point where on the way to Other Music they planned to storm the store and make a fuss. Somewhere between Florent and Other Music Berman picked up a large rubber band and a single tennis ball on the street and carried these items with him.

When we reached Other Music Marcellus Hall’s band, White Hassle, were finishing up a set they played outside the store. After some small talk he packed up his equipment and left. Koretsky went inside to talk to Other Music people while Berman chatted with a woman from the P.R. company Drag City used. She had a toddler with her and Berman first offered him the rubber band, then the tennis ball and finally his driver’s license and credit card. The kid refused all. He seemed unnervingly humorless for a three year old.

Instead of creating a commotion Berman suggested we go to the Strand. The next summer I found a job at the Strand among the refuse that sought employment there—the former junkies, trannies, and would be artists—and watched while they engaged in the co-dependent relationship the Strand fostered among its staff. The store gave $50 credit on the week’s paycheck, which really helped the drug addicts on staff cop their fixes, but never allowed them to move beyond the comfortable den they’d made for themselves amidst the 80 miles of books. As you walk into the Strand you meet a bored college kid manning the bag check. Berman checked his tennis ball and rubber band (now wound around the ball) and asked the clerk what was the strangest thing he’d checked. The guy mentioned a rotisserie chicken, and satisfied with his answer, Berman walked into the store. I followed him around as he plucked books from the piles and listened to his pronouncements on the books—"A Confederacy of Dunces" was panned and "Underworld" by Delillo was bought. Berman worried about his next credit card statement but bought the pile anyway.

After the shopping we walked north to the hotel room he was sharing with other Drag City people. We passed the gated garden in Gramercy Park and admired the foliage we could only look at. We stopped at a corner deli where Berman purchased an iced tea and a nectarine. He offered to buy me a snack but I politely refused. We’d been talking the whole time, and the circuit from Gansevoort Street back up to the East 20’s was a long one, but we had not yet begun the actual interview. I feel lucky to have spent the day with a writer and musician I respect as much as I respect David Berman. We talked about music and writing—I was a writing major at the time and felt self conscious about my work—and there was never a point where Berman made me feel like a kid or patronized me. Instead of turning me off to writers he made me feel like I was just one of many eccentric individuals with the goal of telling stories in the form that best suited us. I shared some of my stories with him—I always used story telling as a way to relate to people—and he commented that some of them sounded like Raymond Carver’s work. I’m still working on those stories, I’m a slow learner, but I do think that in a small but important way talking to Berman made me see that if they were important to me they might be important to others.

In the interview that follows Berman talks about music and writing—more so about writing, which is why I think this particular interview is a departure from the norm—and I hope his warmth and unpretentious gentility comes across because to a 19 year old girl from New York City he was a perfect gentleman.

Now read the interview.

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